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the technologies solar, wind energy efficiency more fuel efficiency, and obama has been doing some of it. he has been pushing the fuel efficiency very hard. >> bill: and what about existing fossil fuel plants? >> well you are going to have to over time figure out how to capture the carbon pollution, or just replacement with clean energy. >> bill: so cap and trade or carbon tax? >> i don't think we're going to see cap and trade, but i think there is a window of opportunity for a carbon tax to make polluters pay. somebody -- there is going to be revenues in it. >> bill: from somewhere. >> somewhere. and it's certainly better to put a tax solution than to tax labor, so i think people have talked about a possibility of getting a carbon tax there even using it to help lower the corporate income tax rate so i think now is the time to really push for this. >> bill: and it's not going to happen unless people really mad and demand it and say, listen let's get serious about climate change, and it could be that hurricane sandy -- we'll look back and say that was the tipping point. that
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